I don't often get political on my blog but I am getting on my soapbox today. Last night, while on Facebook, I noticed that a friend had changed her status to, "I LOVE Barack Obama!" Someone commented on her status, "You would." That lame comment isn't the one that got me. It was the photo next to the comment that filled me with rage!!!! She had a "Yes on 8" photo.
Proposition 8 is on the California ballot this year. If passed, the proposition would "change the California Constitution to eliminate the right of same-sex couples to marry in California." I am a HUGE opponent to this proposition.
In my short life, marriage has mostly been defined marriage as between a man and a woman. As of June 17, 2008, marriage between individuals of the same sex is currently valid or recognized in the state of California. I can't for the life of me understand why same sex marriages should be banned.
I believe that gay couples should be given the exact same rights as my husband and myself. I really don't care who you marry. I may not agree with who you marry but who am I to tell you it isn't ok???? People marry their cousins...do I think it is right? No, but it isn't my business!!!
For some reason, this has me so angry. I have seen Yes on Prop 8 signs around and more than angry it makes me sad. Why should someone not be allowed to be happy just because they don't love who you think they should love? Please tell me why? I know that a lot of proponents for this bill are religious. Does the bible say that homosexuality is wrong? Yes, I suppose it does BUT the bible was written thousands of years ago, yes thousands! Time have changed so much.
The bible also says that women should not speak in church (NRSV, 1 Corinthians 14:33-35). “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. Woman should not be able to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (1 Timothy 2:11-12) The bible also says you shouldn't get tattoos or piercings. What is my point? That the bible is a little behind the times.
If you disagree with me you can let me know. You can slam me or tell me that I am going to hell for my believes. Nothing you can say will change my mind. I believe that every person should have the right to love who they want and should have the same rights as my husband and me. Period!
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It's not about denying gay couples the same legal rights and priveleges. It's about preserving marriage. Proponents of prop 8 would like the term marriage to be reserved for the union of a man and woman. I think most proponents aren't trying to be hateful toward gay couples they would just like their legal union to have a different title. What has blown me away is the level of intolerance I've seen displayed toward those who support 8. The hypocrisy is amazing.
I understand what they want, I just don't understand WHY they want it. Why does it matter? In my eyes, it is being hateful because these people think that they are better. What if we said African American's had to call their marriage's "civil unions?" Wouldn't that be hateful? In my eyes it is the same thing.
I guess I just roll my eyes at the Yes on 8 stuff. You have to understand that the Morman church is virtually bankrolling the proposition. They've recruited the LDS students at BYU in Utah to call all their relatives in CA. They encouraged their members to email everyone they know regarding this issue. I've gotten emails from my cousin (same girl) and my husband's gotten emails from coworkers, presumably Morman, strongly encouraging us to vote yes.
In my opinion, it's like my cousin and other LDS members are simply doing their 'job'.
Hence the reason I just roll my eyes.
It looks like it won't pass, which thrills me!
Lia, I can't figure out WHY either. Why do people want so much control over over people's lives?
I find it very frustrating and confusing too. We have a few Yes on 8'ers in my hood and they are Morman. So that comment by N@SM helped me pass some of my anger, I didn't know that the LDS church was the main supporter of that prop. I agree, I don't see why they care, or why they would spend so much time, money and political capital on something that just doesn't hurt anyone. I was thinking about putting up my save darfur sign just to say "hey, perhaps there are some real things you could stir the pot about".
I think it goes beyond the Mormon church. My husband and I will be cancelling out eachothers votes. Yes, the liberal teacher will vote no but the conservative husband will be voting yes.
My opinion, keep our government out of our business. Here's my joke: If someone wants the pain and agony of marriage let them have it!
We had a round table discussion of six country women and half of us were for yes and half for no. None of them mormon but of old fashion values.
Hey Lia,
As a Mormon I just wanted to say a few things. The church has not bankrolled the proposition. In fact they have not donated financially. They can't do that legally witout losing their tax exempt status. They have asked their members to support the proposition in any way they can. I think it's safe to say that most Mormons see it as a moral issue more than a legal one. Also, my nephew at BYU has not been asked to contact anyone regarding this matter.
I have no interest in trying to change your mind, or anyone else's. In fact, the church even in asking people to talk with their family and neighbors, has specifically said not to try to persuade anyone, just ask their opinion on it and see if they would be willing to have a yard sign or bumper sticker.
Being married to a non-Mormon, democrat, African American, I also just want to add that he finds the often made comparison between Blacks and Gays, when issues such as this arise, very upsetting. He feels this is a completely off base comparison. I won't speak for him as to his reasons why but I wanted to put that out there for whatever it's worth.
I recently read a comment on Facebook in which someone said they want to egg the homes of the people who have Prop 8 signs in their yard. To me that is hateful and a perfect example of intolerance of those with different beliefs.
April--Thanks for your comment! I really do appreciate you being able to give me some info from the "other side."
I will admit that I have actually seen the emails Nette talks about from Mormon's so I do know that is happy. I congratulate your Ward on not pushing it.
As for your husband thinking that comparing blacks and gays as upsetting and completely of offbase, I am not sure why. I know you said you couldn't speak for him.
I use them as a comparison just as I would use Jewish people or any other race or creed that has been persecuted against. Blacks couldn't drink from a water fountain because of the color of their skin, gays can't marry because they love someone other than the norm.
For me it is about Human Rights not selective rights for a certain color, creed, religion, etc.
I loved the tweet the other day that said "Checking to see if gay marriage is affecting the sanctity of mine. Nope, still nothing." That about sums it up for me.
To each his or her own, let them get married but don't bitch when you can't divorce because there is no law for man and man or woman or woman to get divorce.
My comments were meant as generalizations. I hope not to offend anyone. Although I stand behind what I said, I also appreciate that everyone is entitled their own opinion on this and all subjects.
Mormon Funding Prop 8 info:
http://mormonsfor8.com/?p=154
BYU Students Joining the fight:
http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/69566
Hope these links will help clarify where I got some of my info.
As much as I support the rights of gays, and would vote NO to Prop-8, I think I can UNDERSTAND (not necessarily agree with) what "the other side" is worried about.
First off, let me say that I wholey support gays and gay rights. I believe that we are all God's children, and we are all sinners. So, whether or not being gay is a sin, it will be treated just like all other sins in the "end". It is not my place to judge.
That being said, I was discussing this very issue with an anti-gay marriage friend of mine and he offered some very interesting points. The main one was the whole preservation of "marriage"... He said his biggest fear was that, once gays get the right to be "married", the rules could keep changing to accept other types of "alternative" marriages... polygamy, marriage to children, marriage to relatives, etc.
Personally, I think same-sex people in a union, raising a family and committing their lives to one another, deserve to have the same rights as heterosexual couples. If not because they themselves are human beings, then at least BECAUSE THEIR CHILDREN DESERVE that added security.
I had a student last year whose birth mother "Jane" had been in a union with "Suzie" for over ten years. The girl's father died when she was a baby, and she saw Suzie as much of a parent as her own mother. Well, Jane died in a car accident this summer, and this young lady was forced to go live with her dad's mom, a woman whom she barely knows and who drinks and smokes heavily. She is mourning the loss of her birth mother, the separation from her "other mother" as well as having to move away from her friends and school.
That student would be able to stay with her "other mother" if gay marriage were legal.
Anyway... I will get off MY soapbox now!!!
--Pam
April-
I would agree that the thought of ripping the YES on 8 signs out of my neighbors lawns did cross my mind. For me it didn't come from a place of hate. It came from a place of fear and discouragement.
I didn't and wouldn't tear the signs out. I believe in the right of free speech and equality for all, and all opinions, even ones I don't agree with.
Thus the reason I will vote No on 8- without hesitation.
And anon-
Preserving marriage? Really? Come on now lets not fall for the "separate but equal" bit here. Remember that 'marriage' was only allowed for white to white and black to black 'til not so long ago.
Just wanted to sign my name under your post. I agree wholeheartedly with everything you wrote.
Any of the arguments I've read/heard of so far supporting denying gays the right to marriage doesn't make much sense to me.
I think what you are asking is very valid and not something anyone is choosing to focus on. WHY? I do not agree with the first person - they aren't trying to be hateful towards gays and lesbians. Um, of course they are. They are asking the people of the state of california to vote on taking away one of our basic human rights - the right to marry the one we love. I've lived in a lot of places all over the world and keep coming back to America because of what we stand for - freedom for all. Prop 8 is about taking taking freedoms away.
No one is asking to take away any of the rights of heterosexuals to marry. No one is asking or wanting to tell churches they have to marry anyone. "We" are merely asking for equality in the legal system of the State of California. Allowing my partner and I to marry will not in any way undermine the institution of marriage as the proponents of Prop. 8 would like for you to believe.
A tremendous amount of money and effort is being pumped into passage of Proposition 8. I hope that each of you, as fair-minded Californians, will vote NO on Proposition 8 so that people like Laura and I will retain the right to marry.
I don't understand how people can vote yes on this. Do they really want the government involved in people's PERSONAL lives and their decisions? What if the next ballot is that Jews can't marry Christians would that be ok? For me it's all the same. Let people be happy and in love, it's their lives whatever they choose. There is something called Separation of Church and State. The government doesn't get to make these decisions!
This reminds me that I need to get something up on the blog about the prop.
What I don't understand is the legality of the prop. If the CA Supreme Court already ruled gay marriage as legal, then how can the voters overrule that? Does this mean there will be another court case?
i've been in a committed union with my same sex partner for 11 years, we're expecting our 2nd child in 3 months, and the last thing I EVER want to do is get married. And I just gave money I don't have to give to NO on Prop 8. Life is complicated. This issue isn't. Fair is fair and I'm pro-choice to the end.
Come on people. Please don't think about trespassing on someone else's property.
If someone desires to put up a sign in their front yard that says, "I'm a moron," you should let them.
You go Lia.
@anonymous1 I'm so sick of being called intolerant for not supporting people who are intolerant of others.
There will probably be another court case either way - those darn liberal supreme court justices trying to change the consititution to change the definition of marriage (saw that in an editorial, that's not from me:)- people, it's not in the constitution, yet. I too don't understand why we are voting again and again. I hate to think about what the $60M raised could have been used for besides fighting this ($30M per side), not to mention all the $ the court cases cost.
And people are frustrated about the comparisons to interacial marriage, but the Mormon church used to not allow blacks in their church, either, they managed to change their own history there, though.
Of course I think people should be able to marry anyone they want, as long as it's not coerced (not children, they are minors).
Thanks for this post Lia!
Arrrrgh, y'all commenters, It's not intolerant not to tolerate someone taking away civil rights of a minority group!
In the past few weeks Yes on 8 people screamed obscenities at me and at my 8 year old child, on the street, in RWC and in San Mateo. I have not ripped up any signs. I am not interfering with anyone's right to free speech & public discourse.
It is not hypocrisy to wonder, why do they hate our families? What is their motivation? It isn't hypocrisy to object to institutionalized homophobia. Also, it really makes me sad and angry. I try to keep a lid on that and talk and persuade people. But it's hard.
About race and gayness, I do understand the wrongness of the comparisons to African American civil rights movement and can drop a few links later today. Some people mean well by it, some don't, but it is misguided.
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